Russians are blasting the crap out of Georgia

[Asmodean]

Russian jets attack Georgian city as battles rage

Hundreds feared dead in South Ossetia; Bush calls Medvedev, Saakashvili

TBILISI, Georgia - Russia sent hundreds of tanks and troops into the separatist province of South Ossetia and bombed Georgian towns Saturday in a major escalation of the conflict that has left scores of civilians dead and wounded.

Georgia, a staunch U.S. ally, launched a major offensive Friday to retake control of breakaway South Ossetia. Russia, which has close ties to the province and posts peacekeepers there, responded by sending in armed convoys and military combat aircraft.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told reporters in Moscow that some 1,500 people have been killed, with the death toll rising Saturday.

The figure could not be independently confirmed, but witnesses who fled the fighting said hundreds of civilians had probably died. They said most of the provincial capital, Tskhinvali, was in ruins, with bodies lying everywhere.

The air and artillery bombardment left the provincial capital without water, food, electricity and gas. Horrified civilians crawled out of the basements into the streets as fighting eased, looking for supplies.

Russian Gen. Vladimir Boldyrev claimed in televised comments Saturday that Russian troops had driven Georgian forces out of the provincial capital. Witnesses confirmed that there was no sign of Georgian soldiers in the streets.

Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili proposed a cease-fire Saturday. As part of his proposal, Georgian troops were pulled out of Tskhinvali and had been ordered to stop responding to Russian shelling, said Alexander Lomaia, secretary of his Security Council.

Russia did not immediately respond to Saakashvili's proposal. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev had said earlier that Moscow sent troops into South Ossetia to force Georgia into a cease-fire.

Lomaia said there had been direct fighting between Russian and Georgian soldiers on the streets of Tskhinvali. He estimated that Russia sent 2,500 troops into Georgia. The Russian military has not said how many of its troops were deployed.

Russian military aircraft also bombed the Georgian town of Gori on Saturday. An Associated Press reporter who visited Gori shortly afterward saw several apartment buildings in ruins, some still on fire, and scores of dead bodies and bloodied civilians. The elderly, women and children were among the victims.

"Georgia is facing Russia's military aggression," Saakashvili said, noting that Russian forces were attacking areas outside South Ossetia. "Georgian authorities support a cease-fire and separation of the warring parties."

It is the worst outbreak of hostilities since the province won de facto independence in a war against Georgia that ended in 1992.

Threats of a wider war
The fighting threatens to ignite a wider war between Russia and Georgia, which accused Russia of bombing its towns, ports and air bases. Georgia, a former Soviet republic with ambitions of joining NATO, has asked the international community to help end what it called Russian aggression.

It also likely will increase tensions between Moscow and Washington, which Lavrov said should bear part of the blame for arming and training Georgian soldiers.

Moscow has said it needs to protect its peacekeepers and civilians in South Ossetia, most of whom have been given Russian passports. Ethnic Ossetians live in the breakaway Georgian province and in the neighboring Russian province of North Ossetia.

Overnight, Russian warplanes bombed the Vaziani military base on the outskirts of the Georgian capital and near the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline, Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said. He also said two other military bases were hit, and that warplanes bombed the Black Sea port city of Poti, which has a sizable oil shipment facility.

Continued at source

[afreethinker30]

I bet Bush is loving this.Im sure he will say something about terrorist and how we need to get involved.

[Tom62]

The problem is that the USA has made a bilateral security pact with Georgia, which basically means that Georgia could ask for US military assistance against the Russians. The USA would then have to comply, because otherwise they would loose face. If that happens then the shit really hits the fan, because we would have a new world war in the making. For the moment we can only hope that the Georgians and the Russians get their problems solved as quickly as possible without foreign interference.

[Asmodean]

Tom, you've got a point.

However, I don't think Russians will just pack up their tanks and go away. Nor do I think the US government is foolish enough to get involved in a war with Russia on Russian home turf. Basically, my prognosis is: Georgia is f**kd.

[afreethinker30]

Tom, you've got a point.

However, I don't think Russians will just pack up their tanks and go away. Nor do I think the US government is foolish enough to get involved in a war with Russia on Russian home turf. Basically, my prognosis is: Georgia is f**kd.

The US government is good at nosing into things.That's it I'm packing and moving to Canada!

[Asmodean]

The US government is good at nosing into things.That's it I'm packing and moving to Canada!

That they are. But Russian Federation is not Iraq. They have the capacity to bloody the US nose pretty thoroughly, should the US decide to give military aid to Georgia. And a war on that scale is no what any one wants... Well, maybe Bush... And Medvedev... And a couple of other people... But they are just exceptions who confirm the rule.

[afreethinker30]

The US government is good at nosing into things.That's it I'm packing and moving to Canada!

That they are. But Russian Federation is not Iraq. They have the capacity to bloody the US nose pretty thoroughly, should the US decide to give military aid to Georgia. And a war on that scale is no what any one wants... Well, maybe Bush... And Medvedev... And a couple of other people... But they are just exceptions who confirm the rule.

I know being an American that alot of the people here are fed up with it all.Given the chance (if we get our say so) we will stay out of it.But with Bush in office you never know what might happen.I think he's alot smarter then people give him credit for he got congress to vote things in...But then again the a&&es admitted to not reading alot of things they pass.American democracy is a joke.The biggest joke being on the people that live here.We get fooled into thinking we really have a say when we don't.

[rlrose328]

The problem is that the USA has made a bilateral security pact with Georgia, which basically means that Georgia could ask for US military assistance against the Russians. The USA would then have to comply, because otherwise they would loose face. If that happens then the shit really hits the fan, because we would have a new world war in the making. For the moment we can only hope that the Georgians and the Russians get their problems solved as quickly as possible without foreign interference.

But when did Bush care about losing face?  That's what he's been doing the entire time he's been in office.

Sure, we go to war against Russia, we have no military here at home, war comes to our shores, the rest of the world gangs up on us.  Right?  Ugh.

[rlrose328]

The US government is good at nosing into things.That's it I'm packing and moving to Canada!

We're right behind you.  I'd move in a heartbeat if Hubby could get a job there immediately.  We've decided that already.

[Asmodean]

Well, my prognoses (about georgia being f**kd) were apparently true... Russians said that the only solution was for Georgia to leave South Ossetia and it seems like Georgian forces are doing just that.

On a scale from one to ten, how smug do you think Mr. Medvedev is right now..?

[afreethinker30]

Well, my prognoses (about georgia being f**kd) were apparently true... Russians said that the only solution was for Georgia to leave South Ossetia and it seems like Georgian forces are doing just that.

On a scale from one to ten, how smug do you think Mr. Medvedev is right now..?

I would guess a 10.Bush is to busy at the Olympics right now.Whew I'm keeping an eye on that bugger.

[Asmodean]

Bush is to busy at the Olympics right now.Whew I'm keeping an eye on that bugger.

Bush's problem with Russia is that he has almost no influence with them. He can threaten them with military forces and listen to them laugh him up and down or he can threaten them with sanctions but they'll laugh him up and down then too... And he has no money to bribe them.    Being Bush is harder than one might think...

[afreethinker30]

[Tom62]

The European Union is now making a lot of diplomatic efforts to establish an immediate cease fire and to get Georgia and the Russian Federation around the negotiation table. That seems a better approach then everything that is coming out of the White House at this moment, which consists of nothing more then sending empty threads to the Russians.

"The vice president told President Saakashvili that Russian aggression must not go unanswered, and that its continuation would have serious consequences for its relations with the United States,

Now, that is great leadership isn't it

[afreethinker30]

The European Union is now making a lot of diplomatic efforts to establish an immediate cease fire and to get Georgia and the Russian Federation around the negotiation table. That seems a better approach then everything that is coming out of the White House at this moment, which consists of nothing more then sending empty threads to the Russians.

"The vice president told President Saakashvili that Russian aggression must not go unanswered, and that its continuation would have serious consequences for its relations with the United States,

Now, that is great leadership isn't it :shock:  .But he's to busy watching sports to make a comment himself.Which is probley a good thing.